Thinking About Using TinyPortal

[TwinsX2Dad]

Some? Which ones? I'm sure you could get arguments from all kinds of people in all kinds of different niches from such a wide customer base saying that they don't need features that others think are necessary or should be included by default and vice versa.

The simple fact remains that the importance and usability of specific features are subjective. It only takes one person to come out say that they'd never use something, and it no longer means that the feature is some kind of objective necessity to make it "high-end" or "premier".

No, I am using the same references that the IT and communications industries use in their categorization of the software. In objective message board rating, SMF typically shows up as a 40-50th percentile product - midrange. Personally, I think (I may be wrong here) that for something to be considered high end would mean it should at least pass the halfway point.

But then again, what would industry professionals know? Especially those who administer Internet servers and sell Internet hosting? I mean, what would they know about this stuff, especially compared to the person who might have one or two sites and have invested all of their time on one platform.

There are people just like you - on phpBB boards, IPB boards, vB boards, you name the board and there are those who would die rather than admit their favorite software isn't the do-all end-all of the Internet world.

A new release doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be more feature-rich.

That's interesting - it has always meant that with software. Are you saying that SMF will be different than every other application which was ever upgraded? And, if not for  more features, why upgrade at all? Listening to some, SMF is perfect under the hood - no need to improve. That is, unless it was to become more vB-like?

Who ever said it was? As far as I'm aware no one said that, but you seem to going on the assumption that at least one of us believes that.

Um, you did. I've already heard from several who claim you're defending SMF and I am tearing it down.

I agree, and I don't think anyone really believes TP to be a CMS or that it's headed in the direction of a CMS.

It may not be near Mambo/Joomla in features, but give it time, and it'll probably get up there.

I think (like anunlike) that they will become better and more powerful than any other CMS out there.

Wait - who is contradicting themselves? Reread those threee quotes. I see a clear contradiction as put forth by you and technodragon73 capped it. You're contradicting yourself all over this thread, in an apparent attempt to rile me or get the mods to downgrade my reputation further (note to mods - can you make it negative three digits?). I think what everyone needs to do is go back the original thread starter and see where this thing went awry.

To make it simpler, here they are - but please, refresh your memories as to what has happened here and don't simply skim over the writings with a preconceived notion in your mind. Go back and actually READ the previous posts. This thread has had one of my employees here in stitches all morning long. She has the thread printed and has been highlighting it like crazy, to show others.

Hi, forgive a noob for asking stupid questions, but I am stuck between using Mambo or SMF with TinyPortal. I am currently working on practice sites using both methods. I would prefer to use SMF, but have a few questions. I currently have chat and arcade modules installed on SMF with TinyPortal. I would also like a weblinks directory and a picture gallery with user submitted pics. I know it's possible, but how difficult would it be to stick these things onto my site?

I don't want have a huge amount of time to spend on this, so I'm looking for something that I can just throw on with not much trouble, configure and use. That's why I'm considering Mambo as the "easy" option at the moment.

It really depends on what you need. You can bridge SMF with Joomla/Mambo for a full CMS solution. Or, you could do Tiny Portal with SMF for a simple portal solution.

The two options are different. A portal generally wraps around a single component to dress it up and add some functionality. In the case of SMF & TP, the core is SMF and TP adds to that. With Joomla/Mambo & SMF, the forum becomes a component of an entire site management system.

If your site is primarily a message board, go SMF & TP. If the message board is just a feature of the site, go with Joomla/Mambo and bridge in SMF (or nearly any assortment of message board applications).

Joomla is the new fork of Mambo - I've found it to be an improvement, while the workings are similar. In other words, if you like Mambo, you'll like Joomla. It seems the support and features may be heading the Joomla direction.

SMF & TP is much easier, but it also isn't capable of nearly as many things.

Gee, this all started because I tried to answer a simple question - but how dare I do that? I am not a recognized member of the SMF Illuminati, nor am I a full-time, truth doesn't matter, SMF cheerleader.

Forgive me for having an objective viewpoint on dozens of site platforms. Forgive me because I am not a small time enthusiast - after all, the little guys know far more about these things than do folks who run servers for clients and actually offer high end Internet hosting. Forgive me for knowing more about UNIX/Linux and servers than I do about the SMF brand of php.

Do you know what would be really scary? It would be for a message board creator to actually build features the message board owners want, instead of features they think we should have.

I see Bloc doing that - unfortunately, his work requires one of those message boards to work.

Come on folks - let see more of the vindictiveness and lower my reputation further! After all. the truth hurts, doesn't it?

[Wolfenrook]

This argument is a simple one to end.  SMF is good at what it does, end of story.  I have tried phpBB (takes far to much time to add modifications, slow, full of security holes, comes with next to no features) IPB (loved it, but in my eyes it is way overpriced for what it is) as well as smaller scripts like myBB, XMB etc.  As far as free forums go SMF IS THE BEST ONE.  Feature wise it is even comparable to IPB, which when you consider the fact that it is free is pretty good going.

Oh and Twinsx2, I am not about to enter into an argument with you, frankly I really can not be bothered to waste my energy.  You have firm and fixed ideas that are not going to change, so why should I bother trying to persuade you?  You use what you like, and I will use what I like, and I like SMF and recommend it regularly.

Wolfenrook.

[anunlike]

First off, PLEASE do not make this personal. It's not now and never has been personal for me. I'm not attacking you, just discussing and giving divergent opinions of some ideas you put forth.

I did not, and never will, lower your karma simply because you disagree with me and I disagree with you. However, if you make it personal, I'd be much more apt to.

And please do not try to interpret my intentions. Please don't read more into what I say and think that you can be correct in trying to interpret something about me that's not presented here.

No, I am using the same references that the IT and communications industries use in their categorization of the software. In objective message board rating, SMF typically shows up as a 40-50th percentile product - midrange. Personally, I think (I may be wrong here) that for something to be considered high end would mean it should at least pass the halfway point.

But then again, what would industry professionals know? Especially those who administer Internet servers and sell Internet hosting? I mean, what would they know about this stuff, especially compared to the person who might have one or two sites and have invested all of their time on one platform.

Thank you, at least now we can know where you're coming from. If you had said this in the begining, I imagine you wouldn't have gotten slamed as hard as you did about this (as per your karma going down and the things that I and eldacar said).

It sounded as if you were just arbitrarily picking and choosing features to make something seem more "high-end" or "premier". At least we know that there's an objective standard with backing you're trying to go by.

There are people just like you - on phpBB boards, IPB boards, vB boards, you name the board and there are those who would die rather than admit their favorite software isn't the do-all end-all of the Internet world.

Calm down, please. Again, do not try to interpret my intentions or anything about me if I didn't clearly state it.

And I never said anything to that affect.

That's interesting - it has always meant that with software. Are you saying that SMF will be different than every other application which was ever upgraded? And, if not for  more features, why upgrade at all? Listening to some, SMF is perfect under the hood - no need to improve. That is, unless it was to become more vB-like?

1.0.6 came out not too long ago. It contained only bug-fixes and the like, there were no new features. If you mean something different by "release", then we're just playing semantics.

Um, you did. I've already heard from several who claim you're defending SMF and I am tearing it down.

Just because I'm defending SMF does not mean I believe it to be the end-all of forum software. I like it, I like it better than all the others. But, that's mainly because it fits my needs and wants. If others provide other features, more power to them.

And you wonder why your karma is going down and feel like you're being attacked?

I agree, and I don't think anyone really believes TP to be a CMS or that it's headed in the direction of a CMS.

It may not be near Mambo/Joomla in features, but give it time, and it'll probably get up there.

I think (like anunlike) that they will become better and more powerful than any other CMS out there.

Wait - who is contradicting themselves? Reread those threee quotes. I see a clear contradiction as put forth by you and technodragon73 capped it. You're contradicting yourself all over this thread, in an apparent attempt to rile me or get the mods to downgrade my reputation further (note to mods - can you make it negative three digits?). I think what everyone needs to do is go back the original thread starter and see where this thing went awry.

To make it simpler, here they are - but please, refresh your memories as to what has happened here and don't simply skim over the writings with a preconceived notion in your mind. Go back and actually READ the previous posts. This thread has had one of my employees here in stitches all morning long. She has the thread printed and has been highlighting it like crazy, to show others.

Firstly, please don't quote someone else and consider it be proof of my intentions or opinions. I'm only going to deal with my quotes.

As I said before, it could easily become CMS-like. It's a portal, but give it time and features could be added that are CMSesque. I know that I don't think of it as a CMS, but I'll probably end up using it in a way that's reminscent of one. But, it's not headed in the direction of a CMS, in that it's developed specifically to be a CMS or, as you said, it wouldn't have been developed around a forum. I never meant that it would turn into a CMS, just that more features will be added. At the very least, it's only in beta, so there's really not a whole lot that can be said right now.

Gee, this all started because I tried to answer a simple question - but how dare I do that? I am not a recognized member of the SMF Illuminati, nor am I a full-time, truth doesn't matter, SMF cheerleader.

Huh? What?

This thread has had one of my employees here in stitches all morning long. She has the thread printed and has been highlighting it like crazy, to show others.

Come on folks - let see more of the vindictiveness and lower my reputation further! After all. the truth hurts, doesn't it?

I'll ask it again, you wonder why your karma has gone down and feel like you're being attacked?

Forgive me for having an objective viewpoint on dozens of site platforms. Forgive me because I am not a small time enthusiast - after all, the little guys know far more about these things than do folks who run servers for clients and actually offer high end Internet hosting. Forgive me for knowing more about UNIX/Linux and servers than I do about the SMF brand of php.

Personally, I think you make very good points and given your seeming experience, I'm very willing to listen to what you have to say and it carries weight. But, you're taking this way too personally. Please calm down and we can debate and discuss at a normal healthy adult level. There's no need to resort to snide remarks and running off telling your co-workers about this and reporting back on how funny they thought it was. You seem to be more invested than others (including myself) are in your opinion, your "tearing-down" of SMF and TP. That's probably why people have reacted so negatively to it, not because "the truth hurts". If you had been more civil, you may not have gotten the reactions you did. If we can calm down, things could continue in a normal healthy adult level.

[TwinsX2Dad]

You use what you like, and I will use what I like, and I like SMF and recommend it regularly.

As do I - but not blindly, and not for every application, nor for every need.

[Paulie]

This thread reads like a war zone script.
Calm down people.

[TwinsX2Dad]

This reply is directed toward anunlike's last post - I am just too tired and busy to do a bit by bit quote of it. Hopefully, it won't be too difficult to follow.   

I did not intend to make it personal. But I posted what I thought was a decent overview of both options the topic starter was asking about, without making any assumptions. He asked TP or Mambo, without any additional information. From there, I was made to defend each and every word. Also, with that first post, I noticed my 'karma' dropped from 6 to 5 to 4. This morning, it went to 2, then as low as -18.

As far as the 'karma' issue goes, I place zero credibility in the feature. First, the word and the concept is derived from Hinduism and is considered occultic by Christians, Jews, Mormons, Muslims and others. Second, the way the numbers are doled out are purely subjective and by chance. If all members are allowed to add or subtract from someon's ratings, it becomes a popularity contest. If only the board staff are allowed to change it, it becomes solely an indicator of how well one agrees with (or brown-noses) the staff. My call to take my 'karma' to a huge negative number was a challenge to show just how subjective the number is. I honestly couldn't care less what my 'karma' number is, because it is arbitrary and actually a bit juvenile. What happened to mine overnight proves how juvenile it really is.

I really try to go out of my way to be objective. However, it is cumulative knowledge - for me to post every single reference and every single source would take days, not to mention a lot of scanning. Know this much - while I am not an SMF 'expert', I could be considered one for phpBB, IPB, vB, UBB and a few others. I've actually contributed some writings on various platforms in Wikipedia. I manage three dedicated servers for site specific functions and run/manage an Internet host, too. I can run in UNIX as well as Windows. Message boards are not a hobby for me. They are a component offering of my business. As such, I must remain objective.

And no, I am not here to sell any hosting packages, nor do I need any inquiries. We are currently running at 114% capacity, because our services are high value, top-tier custom offerings. Our clients come by word of mouth and several consultants and we do not sell to the public at large.

Suffice it to say that I probably know a bit about the world we know as the Internet. I've been running computers and networks since 1979 - or before many here were born.

My apologies for lumping you in with those on other platforms - but it is true that there are those who will defend (insert any software program here) without anything other than the developer's word and will recommend it without regard for need or application. I felt that is what I was dealing with here.

In software version numbering, when viewing 1.2.3, the 1 indicates the version number. The 2 indicates major updates to the version in features or major security issues. The 3 indicates a minor update, and is usually a bug fix. Therefore, the difference between v1.2.3 and 1.2.4 is only a minor bug fix. The difference between 1.1.6 and 1.2.0 could include an additional feature. The difference between 1.2.0 and 2.0.0 is supposed to be a complete core rewrite.

I will say it again - my 'karma' numbers are of no concern to me other than showing how ambiguous and arbitrary they are. If I don't agree with someone with rating authority, my numbers go down. If I brown-nose them, the numbers go up. For those who live and die by these numbers, they serve as a form of censorship.

I might not sound as if it were personal if more would stop the arbitrary comments without taking the time to understand the points presented. The points were not intended to be an emotional focus, nor were they intended to make anyone think that they were stupid for using SMF & TP - I use SMF & TP, too and am a TP cheerleader. The intention was for an objective analysis, based on two very general possible needs, since absolute needs and expectations were not expressed.

One cannot make an objective or intelligent recommendation without knowing all the facts. If you don't know all the facts, an objective pro/con summary is called for.

The next time I encounter a request for help and my two choices are: 1) cheerleading for the house product without regard to the needs OR 2) honesty - I believe I will choose option 3 and not assist at all.

This thread reads like a war zone script.
Calm down people.

So true, Paulie. My apologies that you had to read through it all. Next time, my option will be #3.

[eldacar]

Do you know what would be really scary? It would be for a message board creator to actually build features the message board owners want, instead of features they think we should have.

I don't really see that happening much with any software..

But the SMF team are definately going to find out what users really want for the next version. They are discussing now various ways in which to survey the users, mods and admins of several boards.

[(Ô¿Ô)]

It really depends on what you need. You can bridge SMF with Joomla/Mambo for a full CMS solution. Or, you could do Tiny Portal with SMF for a simple portal solution.

The two options are different. A portal generally wraps around a single component to dress it up and add some functionality. In the case of SMF & TP, the core is SMF and TP adds to that. With Joomla/Mambo & SMF, the forum becomes a component of an entire site management system.

If your site is primarily a message board, go SMF & TP. If the message board is just a feature of the site, go with Joomla/Mambo and bridge in SMF (or nearly any assortment of message board applications).

Joomla is the new fork of Mambo - I've found it to be an improvement, while the workings are similar. In other words, if you like Mambo, you'll like Joomla. It seems the support and features may be heading the Joomla direction.

SMF & TP is much easier, but it also isn't capable of nearly as many things.

Man you people are ruthless. I cant see anything wrong with this post and everyone come unglued on the guy. For what? For him speaking truth? I love smf and tp but I am not stupid enough to think it is a cms or a even great bbs. It is one of the best free bbses but it will never be great. Smf is coded with big limits. It took me a bit to read all of this and I had to use three windows to compare what was said and most of you swiched sides more often than a clock pendelum. If you think smf will ever be much more than it is now you need to take your sunglasses off. You also have to cut people slack when they try to answer something nobody when else is smart enuff to even try helping.

[(Ô¿Ô)]

Do you know what would be really scary? It would be for a message board creator to actually build features the message board owners want, instead of features they think we should have.

I don't really see that happening much with any software..

But the SMF team are definately going to find out what users really want for the next version. They are discussing now various ways in which to survey the users, mods and admins of several boards.

It happens all the time with other sofware. Its the cheap software that doesn't get it. I am always running into thiongs where smf is telling me how to run my site and my server. But vbulletin did that too so I guess they are simlar.

[IchBin]

It really depends on what you need. You can bridge SMF with Joomla/Mambo for a full CMS solution. Or, you could do Tiny Portal with SMF for a simple portal solution.

The two options are different. A portal generally wraps around a single component to dress it up and add some functionality. In the case of SMF & TP, the core is SMF and TP adds to that. With Joomla/Mambo & SMF, the forum becomes a component of an entire site management system.

If your site is primarily a message board, go SMF & TP. If the message board is just a feature of the site, go with Joomla/Mambo and bridge in SMF (or nearly any assortment of message board applications).

Joomla is the new fork of Mambo - I've found it to be an improvement, while the workings are similar. In other words, if you like Mambo, you'll like Joomla. It seems the support and features may be heading the Joomla direction.

SMF & TP is much easier, but it also isn't capable of nearly as many things.

Man you people are ruthless. I cant see anything wrong with this post and everyone come unglued on the guy. For what? For him speaking truth? I love smf and tp but I am not stupid enough to think it is a cms or a even great bbs. It is one of the best free bbses but it will never be great. Smf is coded with big limits. It took me a bit to read all of this and I had to use three windows to compare what was said and most of you swiched sides more often than a clock pendelum. If you think smf will ever be much more than it is now you need to take your sunglasses off. You also have to cut people slack when they try to answer something nobody when else is smart enuff to even try helping.

Am I blind? Did I read the wrong thread? Show me where everyones post came unglued. You come here and start crap immediately. You have no idea what is going on here, so please do not speak on things you no nothing about. This thread has been pretty civilized for the most part. A few misunderstandings and personal attacks, but everything seemed to resolve itself. It seems you are here just to stir the pot. If you don't have something of worth to contribute to the thread other than to point fingers, you are not welcome to post.
You call it truth... Quality is like truth, which is a complex variable that has multiple dimensions. Twins has a lot of great points. A lot of it is opinion. His opinion is based on his experience. Our opinion is based on our experiences. Who is right? It doesn't matter. What matters is that we come to an agreement to disagree before we start the personal attacks. You however, come on this site and immediately start laying blame everywhere. Chill out, relax and have a cup of tea as G6 so eloquently put it.

On a sidenote:

Twins, you know I respect you and your opinion. I also appreciate your contribution. With that said, here's a few things I have as a suggestion for you. You make all these statements (some I agree with, some I dont), and then you make the statement about your karma going down. Why is it that you think this happens? You claim it is because you speak "the truth". I refer you to my truth/quality statement above. Let me just say to you, that we both know there are ways of saying things to people without the risk of offending. In doing so, you don't have to sugar coat it. I ask you to think about the way you say things.

I'm going to come right out and point the finger. This site was humming along very quietly with no drama until you came around. Now I know what started this, but that doesn't mean you're not at fault here too. Take the day and think about that. I ask that you take a moment and preview your posts and think to yourself, "Can I word this so that I'm not so overbearing?"  All of this I ask for sake of the TP community. We have a great thing going here. I'd hate to see it all go down the drain just because a few personalities clash.

Cheers

Brad