Suggestion For The Future Of Support Issues

[Ianedres]

I enjoy TinyPortal, and thoroughly enjoy all that it does.

At the risk of sounding as if I were trying to instigate an argument (which I must explicitly state that I am not), I simply just wish for TP to continue to evolve while increasing the support base around it, as I have no direct personal complaint about anything here at TP.

My daily routine includes scanning through TP to view any issues I need to be aware of; therefore, I may be more aware of the 'support vs them' issue that seems to surface from time to time.

With that, many support requests are from people new to the entire concept of what TP is; some should not even be attempting to start a forum, much less hope to obtain proficient skills to maintain it on a regular basis.

Some are unable to search efficiently for their solution, spell correctly, or otherwise articulate their questions well in a topic. Most arrive here in panic-mode and think their problem is unique, never thinking it hasn't been asked before.

Though most do not follow the requested posting guidelines, I would think the general point is to assist these people rather than to engage further into what was meant by previous postings. No one likes to back down from an argument- especially one online where you have nothing to lose.

I would like to suggest that maybe limiting the debate of the initial response as a reminder to follow the guidelines, and then move to solving the issue itself, would promote a better relationship and reputation of support.

It comes across to us third-parties as bickering and fighting when I peruse through the forum to see quotes about overtones, attitudes, and closing statements abandoning the topic. The solution gets mired in the responses, which only leads to more confusion for others experiencing similar problems. I would not want to wade through multiple pages of such dialog when it appears in a search query.

I sincerely respect all of what the support team members are doing- for free, duly noted. And, for what it is worth, my experience of moderating members spans 20+ years now, and have had my share of similar issues. It is a tireless and repetitive task to function as a support team member- most say 'thanks' and some don't ever come back until they need more help.

As stated before, I only want to make this suggestion as a way to see TP progressing forward. It truly makes my forum all that it is.

[ApplianceJunk]

That sounds great to me.

Now I sure hope you read the rules and posted this in the correct place.

[Zetan]

I have to agree with some of what you have written.
The fact still remains that, regardless of "Us vs Them", we have a simple process.

First we do need to establish what versions of software people are using. If that takes 3 posts, the opener, the response of, "Please follow the posting guide and present the information needed", and then the information in the guide is posted.. Thats a good start.

Second, is the problem a TinyPortal problem? Not always easy to establish, but one we are strict about.

While I can't speak for everybody else, I can speak for myself. I'm personally quite happy for all members here to share their knowledge and answer support questions.. I think the rest of the team are too. What often happens is that some members throw in what they think is an answer and then somebody else throws in their 2 pence worth and totally confuses the whole issue and the topic spins wildly off track.

I will often sit with a topic with a  question/response approach. I always read "Show replies" before I read anything else. If I'm in the middle of a question/response type of support topic and then somebody throws in a spanner.. It does annoy, because what is happening is a flow of posts which are building up with clues as to what a problem might be and then, blam.. If a genuine offer of support is thrown in and it helps, great.

If I don't know, I won't reply.. I may ask for more info and leave it at that.. At least a reply has been given and the person hasn't been ignored, once the information has been posted, more often than not another member will reply.

As for attitudes.. I personally try to maintain a polite approach. If however somebody starts getting narky.. I will not sit here and take it, I will speak my mind. Unless you are brave, you wouldn't poke your finger in my chest in real life.. trust me, I'd break it. So don't do it here and expect to get away with it.

That said, we all have bad days and I'm no exception. If I feel I'm becoming terse with members, I will stay away for a few days.

[G6Cad]

Very well said ZTN, I think what you wrote goes for all in the team.
We all have bad days, and we all have good days.

From 50 support questions aday we can clearly see ONE have researched their issues, they have read the posting guide, they have filled in the info about their setups. Thats what makes all of this worth wild and also the fact we still doing this after 3 years of free support.

Another thing is wordning. I know i have had my share of batching from members even if i didnt even mean for them to be upset. Languages are a big problem sometimes, Frases come out wrong, words are spelled wrong, the grammar are really poor and for that we do get our share of unpolite replies to a great deal of the support topics.

Members do tend to get angry cause we dont reply direkctly and with the correct answers, and when they get upset, we act the same way, we get angry cause we think they should understand that we do this for free, we serve a lot of members every day, we help they fix issues, we even go in to their sites and fix the code for them, but still they spit at us cause we dont give them the answers straight away. They more or less demand us and thats not what we are here for. We are simply here in our "home" that have the door open and the coffe fresh 24/7. They dont pay us, they dont bring the food to our tables, but still they do require us to give them everything we have and they want it yesterday.

The posting guide is our guideline, it's there for a reason and that is to show what our houserules are. We ask for very little and give a whole lot.
When you go to your work every day or your hobby like football, tennis, golf etc etc, you pay for everything. When you pay you can demand some things, but to know what to demand you read the rules for the game so you know what to do. Here you skip the rules, you dont pay to use what we have, still we get demands every day about support with no info on anything what so ever. When we ask for more info, we get batched. Still we are here doing this for every one. In a golfclub you would have gotten the boot out from the doors. Here we keep moving on, and in worst cases we have to give some vacation.

In short. We are a group of people that do this caause we love to do this. We do this for fun and to help where we can. We dont charge you for what we give you, we give you a lot of our time from family, friends, hobbies, and we do this on Xmas day even. we are always here and still some of you are not happy with that but asks us to do more for you for free and you want us to take the batcherings, we cant ask for more info, but still you want us here around the clock and every day of the year.
Wonder what kind of people it would take to give all of this to you for free with out now and then be upset over some thing or some one. We are humans and not robots 

[Zetan]

I posted this in the team boards a while back.. I think I'll now post it here:


Filed under "Humour" 
This applies here at times.. just like after seeing THIS topic.


10 things your IT guy wants you to know

   1. If you ask me technical questions please don’t argue with me because you don’t like my answer. If you think you know more about the topic, why ask? And if I’m arguing with you…it’s because I am positive that I am correct, otherwise I’d just say “I don’t know” or give you some tips on where to look it up, I don’t have the time to just argue for the sake of it.

   2. Starting a conversation by insulting yourself (i.e. “I’m such an idiot”) will not make me laugh, or feel sorry for you; all it will do is remind me that yes, you are an idiot and that I am going to hate having to talk to you. Trust me; you don’t want to start a call that way.

   3. I am ok with you making mistakes, fixing them is my job. I am not ok with you lying to me about a mistake you made. It makes it much harder to resolve and thus makes my job more difficult. Be honest and we can get the problem resolved and continue on with our business.

   4. There is no magic “Fix it” button. Everything takes some amount of work to fix, and not everything is worth fixing or even possible to fix. If I say that you just need to re-do a document that you accidentally deleted 2 months ago, please don’t get mad at me. I’m not ignoring your problem, and it’s not that I don’t like you, I just cant always fix everything.

   5. Not everything you ask me to do is “urgent”. In fact, by marking things as “urgent” every time, you almost ensure that I treat none of it as a priority.

   6. You are not the only one who needs help, and you usually don’t have the most urgent issue. Give me some time to get to your problem, it will get fixed.

   7. Emailing me several times about the same issue in the same day is not only unnecessary, it’s highly annoying. Emails will stay until I delete them, I won’t delete them until I’m done with them. I will typically respond as soon as I have a useful update. If it is an urgent issue, let me know (see number 5).

   8. Yes, I prefer email over telephone calls. It has nothing to do with being friendly, it’s about efficiency. It is much faster and easier for me to list out a set of questions that I need you to answer than it is for me to call and ask you them one by one. You can find the answers at your leisure and while I’m waiting I can work on other problems.

   9. Yes, I seem blunt and rude. It’s not that I mean to, I just don’t have the time to sugar coat things for you. I assume we are both adults and can handle the reality of a problem. If you did something wrong, I will tell you. I don’t care that it was a mistake, because it really makes no difference to me. Don’t take it personal, I just don’t want it to happen again.

  10. And finally, yes, I can read your email, I can see what web pages you look at while you are at work, yes, I can access every file on your work computer, and I can tell if you are chatting with people on an instant messenger or chat room (and can also read what you are typing). But no, I don’t do it. It’s unethical, I’m busy, and in all reality you aren’t all that interesting. So unless I am instructed to specifically monitor or investigate your actions, I don’t. There really are much more interesting things on the internet than you.



Another thing to realise.. The support you may find at other sites isn't nearly as polite as we generally are.
Often you will get a terse reply.. "How dare you waste our time by not searching first", or worse.. I've seen it.


This will likely end up a locked topic as most of these "Moan about attitude and Support" topics are.

[Ianedres]

The attention and dedication to the TP support team is a noble endeavor, especially as much as I read and track here to know how much some members contribute to responding to requests- be it a solution or otherwise.

My thoughts are that a person who is having trouble comes first to the TP home page, may or may not find the search feature, and then runs directly to the first support board they can click on, and posts their question without reading the stickies; i.e. the common first reply asking for version, mods, etc.

There is a certain expectation for support requests to follow a format so that solutions can be forthcoming. Perhaps a more prominent notice about support request requirements (in the form of appearing in some fashion on the home page) and/or a block with the required information format displayed above the message post form (limited to people under certain post counts?) could promote greater compliance with said information.

I just thought I would express my thoughts as to how to eliminate redundant replies and expedite the process of solving the matter. This could reduce the size of topics, improve the atmosphere, and shorten search results to comprehensive information. Hopefully, this all communicates as a helpful suggestion rather than criticism.

[Zetan]

I agree with you. A polite notice would help.

[IchBin]

I see your points, but I have to disagree in one aspect. As big as this site is getting, we cannot continue to just ask question after question to get information out of people. I barely have time anymore to jump on and track down problems for people, let alone find out what they are using, or what they have done. I need that information up front, and in my face. I'm now at the point, that I ignore posts if they do not follow the guidelines. Personally, I'd like to see the TP team ignore any posts where they don't follow the guidelines. Then maybe people will start to realize why others are getting support when they see that the people getting it are actually supplying the information needed. This will save us from taking out our frustration on the newbie users, and also save us from looking like the bad guy. I have to agree with ZTN as well. I know of places far worse. Check out the squirrelmail archives. That guy over there literally rips you a new one for wasting his time by not searching and not following the guidelines.

[Xarcell]

@ Ianedres

I agree with you also, but a major issue is "Time". It's more production for us to help a user who has provided the information we need and posted it in the right area. For those who hasn't provided the information we need, it's more productive to just ask them to follow the guidelines, and come back to them when they have done so.

There are alot of folks that need help, so we try to manage our time wisely.

I agree with Ich, posts where user's do not follow the guidelines should be ignored altogether. It seems harsh, I wish there was another way, but I just don't see one. The only other method I see that can be of help is extensive documentation, which I have done and will continue to work on.

[Ianedres]

I just hate to see three or four (or more!) replies debating what was typed, meant, or otherwise debated.

For the most part, I just wanted to impart my suggestion upon the powers-that-be, as I am a third-party to this and have no dog in the fight.