Hi, I was just thinking it would be neat if someone would setup a forum with classes with members as students. Students than will graduate to Moderators or something similar. Maybe they can have a donate button there, I am sure there are many of us who would apreciate having a class on the stylesheet. With tips tricks and codes to change this and that. Thats where I am stuck and lost right now, I don't know what changes what. Also, backing up the forum was hard for me, I got an idea of how its done. But sure would be nicer if there was someone always there to take you by the mouse and walk you through. Maybe we could pay for personal tutors, they would have access to our accounts to signin an checkup on our progress. Tell us what we should change etc.... They could have tutorials via video of voice or something similar. Yes Yes I know about the manual, forgive me for saying maybe its time to update that? Or add a version for the dummies, ooops, he he I mean newbies. Please someone break it down to us in baby steps. I for one would be glad to place a donation there.
Just an idea for a smart mind to build, I can't wait I want to be the first signup. If anyone knows of current Tp classes let me know please.
NBot a bad idea, but i think you have all of this in here as it is, not as "class" structured, but the entire forum and doc section and also the members here are kind of class and teachers.
Also simplemachines.org have a VERY big support forum with a great doc section to learn from, also the team there are very good at answering questions and help where they can.
Yes, I know but I mean as a class structure, where you have students and tutors. The tutors focus more on the student than and overall community. Maybe a limit of students is accepted for, lets say a month. Than new students are admitted. And they will have more access to our forums via admin approval until the student is on his own. The donate is incentive and reward for the tutor. Each moderator or admin will have a donate button in his classroom. This classroom structure will spark more donations I predict.
If anybody game to take on the task can I name it. Pleasssseee.
Let's call it TP Classes Online. Just an idea
I dont think that will apply very well to this site as every thing here is done by peoples free will and free time. Have it like your idea will lead to more "forced" structure of what this site is all about.
Also it's more of less a development site for a single quite big mod that is builded by one man only (Bloc) and the team around him is we that try to give the support we can with the time we have.
The way things work with the staff and staff application is simple. We see members that comes in, they read, they learn by them self, they are good with other members, they are friendly, and they pretty much handle things by them self, and are willing to share that knowlage with others on their free time. That member gets invited by Bloc or IchBin after the rest of the team have given their thoughts about that member.
Running a this site as a classroom with a system that we have to act like teachers will take all the free fun things away from this site. So even if it's a good thought, I cant see it working here on our tinyportal :D
A Big Bad idea
As G6 Said we are not paid.We just come here at our will and at our free time and do what we do.So it would be a bad idea
That kind of tuition would have to be paid tuition. Most of us have families, full time jobs and we can only give as much as our free time allows.
If this was my full time job as a support member, then sure.. I would have 8-10 hours every day to put in.
We also run our own sites that need attention too and social lives.
So, while it's a great idea.. it's not practical for the majority of members.
We have a docs section, which may need updating, but using search and learning a few basics for yourself makes a lot of difference.
We do try to help with as many problems as possible, but this isn't a PHP, JAVA, etc support site.. there are many sites that do offer "Class" style support which can in many instances be applied to SMF/TP and many other websites.
I don't know, I think online classes would be great for those people wanting to learn more about scripting with out having to pay someone to do the work for them. It has been proven in the past that not everyone has the time to go in and fix little simple codes and install updates, and I personally would like to see some sort of a video show on how to install and how to manage the programs, that would help people to learn so that at some point maybe they can help others looking for help.
In some cases I can understand someone wanted to be paid for support, but TP has always been about free help, and that is why I think it would be a great Idea to give this to the people of TP and take the time to have online classes, I think I am going to keep this in mind for future projects.
Please consider that many of us here may have much less TP experience and knowledge than yourseif.
I patiently await your first instructional class.
terry - fed up with bullshit demands made towards FREE software developers - k
I think in the near future you will see what you are looking for. You just have to give it some time.
Robert, I have been doing a lot of that lately. Many of the gaming groups I play with are looking to set up small websites with a few standard blocks and some graphic editing. I show them my sites, explain TP and SMF in a basic sense and help them get everything installed and running. I love to do it and its a way for me to give back to the community for all the help I get. Can't really say the are "classes" but I learn and so do the others. I like free, even though I don't mind picking up the theme club and such for the extras. But the community also has to give back when they can. :up:
Well you see, a lot of times there are people out here who are using these types of programs to run their sites, and I am sure that not all of them have the money or the means of sending money just for someone to help them set up their sites or upgrade their sites.
There does come a point in which asking for help or taking advantage of the person helping you comes into play, and that I have seen a lot in the past. I think that it is very important to give as much information that is possible when people want to install new programs or do up grades for their sites, because not everyone has the ability to do that kind of stuff.
On the other hand there is also an issue when greed starts to play a roll as well. People want to make money, and their time is very valuable, and if they spend countless hours doing upgrades and installs they do need to be paid for this. These people at first were doing it out of the kindness of their heart, but then when greed starts to take a roll in a website that is when it all becomes a problem.
In today's world of the Internet everyone is out trying to make a fast buck, and in some cases it makes sense to ask for money, but if you offer free programing or a free product asking for money is sort of low, and is why I think it is a good idea to keep it free and make your money some other way, so having a online class is all to important. Also having just text to explain how to do something can be difficult to many others, because they don't understand the terminology of script or other stuff like that, so that is where a lot of these comes into play.
I really feel that with SMF and TP seeing that pretty much everything is for free, it should remain free, support should be free too, and it should be up to the person who is doing the support weather or not they should help, if they want to charge for helping another person that is their choice, but I would rather help someone for free but when I can do it. and when it doesn't cut into my own time. However like I said above there are times when some people like to take advantage of this support, and that is where you have to draw the line.
Support is free at SMF/TP. Advice, and hints and tips is free. Our time given here is free, even in some cases we have been known to enter somebody's forum to fix, upgrade, carry out a task.
It is not our job to do that. We make the invitation if we feel that the advice given here is not helping and would be resolved quicker by simply doing it for you.
The other thing I feel.. If you don't have a clue what you are doing and are un-willing to learn the basics like installing a package, a new theme, upgrading the forum, general administration duties, like forum maintenance. Why are you running a forum?
I drive a car, I can do the basics, change the oil, fill it up with petrol, install a new stereo.. those are very basic things. Digging into the heart of the engine is a job for my mechanic. So I understand that some not so basic things require help, advice, which is what we try to give.
I must say this again.. this is a forum for TinyPortal only, not SMF, not SMF Arcade, Not PHP tuition, java basics or the learning school of html. The other help given is down to the discression of the people offering the advice or the author of a Block Code Snippet that is hosted here for you to use for free.
Now that was a lost cause, some day I am sure this site will have online classes, I am very sure of this, so anyone out there who is looking! just wait a while good things will come sooner or later.
Quote from: Robert on August 07, 2007, 11:06:46 PM
Now that was a lost cause, some day I am sure this site will have online classes, I am very sure of this, so anyone out there who is looking! just wait a while good things will come sooner or later.
Maybe.. But it's only my opinion, and I'm entitled to it. I can't speak for others, though it would have my full backing and support were it to happen.
I am a bit unsure of whats being referred by online classes though..if its interacting live with users in a tutor/student situation, well, then it will be a time issue lol, we simply don't have the time for that.
If it rather something else, like automated "courses" or demonstration videos etc. then its possible of course. Like Tick says though, it will mostly revolve around TP and what it can do. SMF maybe..and perhpas basic learning of html/css/php/mysql..but thats a large area to cover.
Whats really meant here...?
I think what I was trying to get at here Bloc is that in some cases not everyone knows how to write script, and it would be nice to have some sort of a visual look at how people do this type of stuff. As for having live online classes, oh God who has the time for that, I am steering more towards interactive screen capture, to show people step by step how to install either the program, or to install TP, I think then one should be done with doing upgrades. As for different Mods, as one person already said, there are somethings better left alone.
In any case I for online video lessons, if it were possible. Or maybe you guys should contact the Dummies books, and have a book written SMF/Tp for dummies, that is sure to be a hit.
Video is something I like to do - fitting in between all other stuff lol.
Actualy, I can se this go along with the demosites I have been planning for a while, that show what TP can do, and give you the settings to set it up in similar fashion on your own site. Video/flash as part of the process of going from the inital click'n'go step to more, will be interesting I think.
Quote from: Zetan on August 07, 2007, 02:29:12 PM
The other thing I feel.. If you don't have a clue what you are doing and are un-willing to learn the basics like installing a package, a new theme, upgrading the forum, general administration duties, like forum maintenance. Why are you running a forum?
I find this an interesting thread. I to think there are a lot of people like me who do have a reason to run a forum but really have a full plate without trying to get into the technical side of things.
I think the classes are a great idea. I have tried to avoid learning anything for a long time and am a new convert from vBulletin to SMF & TP. If I see a weakness it is intruction and learning for the non technical newbie. I have been trying to spend a couple of hours a day here or on the SMF forum. Learning is definitely challenging. You can find bits and pieces that help in the forums and the manual touches on a few things but either classes or something that was TP for dummies would be a great help.
You would not be the first one to want something like this, however it takes time to set these things up, and I do feel that over time support is going to become less and less well at least in here.
Most people just can't understand the terminology of script, and even though it is easy for some, it can be down right difficult for others. This is where having a good team in place can help others out, but what if that person has no clue to what a support team member is saying, I think that visual aids would come in handy. Video classes, and maybe even some interactive classes would be something of the future in here.
QuoteYou would not be the first one to want something like this, however it takes time to set these things up, and I do feel that over time support is going to become less and less well at least in here.
I do have to disagree with this statement. As this forum gets bigger and bigger you will notice the team does also. I think is the need arises when the forum get bigger than the team will support the team will also get bigger. One thing we pride ourselves on is the way our support team works here. Support will always be good here because that is what keeps people coming back. TIck
Well that might be that it is going to keep growing, but don't you think once you have such information as I spoke of the there will be less time spent for support because people will have step by step video instructions? That right there will tell you that it will be less work for the support team, of course you are right there will always be need for support, but maybe not so much as you might think if this ever happens.
Robert I think you are right on with that. If people can find the information themselves it saves people a lot of support time and effort. I mentioned I was a recent convert from vBulletin. I have had my eye on SMF and TP for a while and used the excuse of the really lousy results I got trying to use their tech support to finally jump ship.
Quote from: Robert on August 10, 2007, 12:17:16 AM
Most people just can't understand the terminology of script, and even though it is easy for some, it can be down right difficult for others.
Robert's quote here was exactly what I ran into at vBulletin. They were more interested in impressing me with their technical vocabulary than solving my problem despite my telling them up front that I was dumber than a brick. After spending 80 hours reading every php command in vBulletin once I figured out how to fix my problem I could have told myself or any other idiot in two or three sentences how to fix it in words anyone would have understood.
Right now I am trying to learn very basic stuff about TP (and SMF) and it is an area here that could use some improvement for dummies like me. For those in the same boat I will say I found answers top some of the things I had wanted to know in a list of newbie questins the RebelRoseNetworks. Basically I found things that covered in a few minutes about half of what I had spent hours hunting for here. For those in the same dumb as a brick stage at me that is probably a good resource. I am planning to start on the phpvidiotutorials in the next day or two and have some good books coming from Amazon.
My suggestion would be to start a sticky thread for the dumb as a brick newbies like me to tell you what exactly they are looking to find simple explanations for. Use these questions to come up with a good F.A.Q. for newbies and in the long run it will save a ton of support time and questions. Find a couple of dumb as brick newbies who would be willing to proof it and let you know if it makes sense to them.
Quote from: Robert on August 10, 2007, 11:02:28 AM
Well that might be that it is going to keep growing, but don't you think once you have such information as I spoke of the there will be less time spent for support because people will have step by step video instructions? That right there will tell you that it will be less work for the support team, of course you are right there will always be need for support, but maybe not so much as you might think if this ever happens.
Well not really. As it is right now there is step by step instuctions on how to do things. People will still need one on one support. Answer me this how are you going to have a video showing code edits that need to be made. With all of the different mods going on there is now way to have a video showing how to edit things. The different variations of the way the code could look is unlimited. I just cant see putting the time into this for the reason of the information is already there. Not trying to bash your idea because in theory it is a good idea. But in reality I dont see it saving any time support wise or making things any easier. Just my two cents. Tick.
You are not bashing my idea if the idea can work, as for all the script? heck man I see examples in here all the time so what is the difference? Besides, there are ways of capturing video off the computer, screen shots, that can be made into movie files. simple and yes it can work, I am sure of it.
I also think that maybe it can start out small and turn into something later on, but people will want to learn, and everyone has to learn somehow, and paying someone to do it for you? that isn't always good either.
Quoteand paying someone to do it for you? that isn't always good either.
I agree with you on this. My point is just it would take a huge library of video to cover all the possibilities of different instances of the way the code could be looking from the users point of view. Just my opinion is the info is all here. I dont see it being any more simple than what it already is. But that is just my opinion. I wish you best of luck and hope it all works out. Tick.
Not long ago, and this was some time back, when I first started using a forum which was NUKE! I was always lost when it came to script, people were telling me, you have to Bla bla bla and bla bla but not before you bla bla, I was back then like "What The Heck" not only that but after six months of trying to get the piece of dodo to work, it never was that great and so out went my search for an alternative program.
When I first installed SMF I really screwed things up, and I needed help to figure out what it was that I was doing wrong, I spent hours upon hours reading how to from this site and I just couldn't understand a word of it, not one. Then one night in came this person out of no where and helped me set my site up, and did all what needed to be done and that was that, but then again I still needed to learn this stuff on my own.
Although it has been a while, and I am starting to get the idea's but not due to any help, but on my own, but it shouldn't have taken me that long, and wouldn't you know it, now I know how to do what needs to be done without the help, but you wouldn't believe how long it took me to figure most of it out, and I still am not 100% sure I am getting it right all the time.
You say, it is out there for anyone, and that is all good, but you have to think back to when you first started out, and how you had to learn all the coding and fun stuff, and there isn't no way in the world you can make be believe that it was easy, it takes time and work, and trial and error, yes everyone must try to learn the basics first, then go onto the hard stuff, but if I would have had more visual aids, and someone talking to me step by step, it all would have went a whole lot faster.
Do you think that if you go to college for this kind of stuff they sit you down in front of a computer and say, learn it on your own? Not always, there is always someone to show you the how too.
I see your point and hope you see mine. I did not mean for this to turn in to a debate on our views of this. Tick ;)
I have been reading this topic with interest, I feel that most of the team members would not have time to do most of the the things you have talked about, although many have shown an interest, I do know that one of the team is compiling as we speak, a full doc section for TP, and I am sure when it is released it will be very helpful to our members, (cant say when it will be ready so don't ask!) so all I can say is keep an eye out for it,
We can't even get people to read stickies or docs in here. I see this as just another step in the way support can be provided, but I don't see it minimizing support IMO.
I think we are discussing actually two levels here..support for specific code or support issues are hard to press into a 5-minute video. A general guide to work an area in TP for example, is just the ticket though.
Its really the same issue at any site offerring extended docs, how much time and talent for the thing, that are available - will determine if it will be created or not. For this site right now its hard pressed..but thats not to say it isn't possible.
Quote from: Bloc on August 11, 2007, 09:31:41 AM
I think we are discussing actually two levels here..support for specific code or support issues are hard to press into a 5-minute video. A general guide to work an area in TP for example, is just the ticket though.
This is how I've viewed the topic. On one hand.. Online 1 to 1 tuition, and on the other, Video Demonstration which I think is a good idea, if people have the time and skill to do it.
I wasn't playing devils advocate, but expressing an opinion.